most recently i have been examining such invisibly occurring events as the 1918 resurrection of the saints and this week ive looked into the watchtower claim that babylon the great fell in 1919. there was scant evidence and little biblical support for the wt claim about the resurrection occuring .
in fact, the key line of proof of the resurrection was that rutherford was released from jail in 1919. does the claim of babylons fall in 1919 fare better?
what is the proof offered by the wt that this, in fact, occurred?
Yeah Grev. I see what you mean
I guess it doesnt matter what the Finished Mystery SAYS. All that matters is what it symbolizes, and it symbolizes AN EXPOSE of Christendom that stirred the clergy into "A WHITE HEAT OF HATE".
Theyve got their little slogans that explain everything. How many times have you heard this one? :
"I MADE AN ASS OF MYSELF".
A Dead Watchtower president taking the cop for failed predictions there. Lets the FDS channel off the hook
at the last district convention, the book "worship the only true god" was released intended to be used along with the "knowledge" book on home bible studies.
both books are to be studied before baptism.
so, what are the 'new recruits' learning?
Ozzie. Its perfectly clear. How could you POSSIBLY show more love for a person than to put forth your best effort to save his life. !!! And not just his life, but his ETERNAL Existance. Far more important than throwing a starving man a mere pound of rice and giving the appearance of charity and assistance. Dont you think ????
most recently i have been examining such invisibly occurring events as the 1918 resurrection of the saints and this week ive looked into the watchtower claim that babylon the great fell in 1919. there was scant evidence and little biblical support for the wt claim about the resurrection occuring .
in fact, the key line of proof of the resurrection was that rutherford was released from jail in 1919. does the claim of babylons fall in 1919 fare better?
what is the proof offered by the wt that this, in fact, occurred?
On July 17, 1917, this Society published and put into their hands the book entitled “The Finished Mystery,”.. On Sunday, December 30, 1917, there was a general distribution of the large, four-page tract, Bible Students Monthly No. 99, with the feature article “The Fall of Babylon,” with quotations from The Finished Mystery.
You would think that they were predicting the fall of Babylon based on this quote. But what did The Finished Mystery actually say about this? ".....
Brother Greven. I realize that when I was deeply researching the dub history and still emotionally involved, I would have rationalized away this point you have made. It was the "Bible students monthly no 99" which,in their statement, appeared to be spirit guided in predicting Babylons fall. Not the finished mystery. The organization is super hard to really pin down in a trap isnt it. This quote from Finished Mystery is an interesting one:
"Greek Chronos, 360 years. See Rev. 2:21......Luther nailed the proclamation on the church door at Wittenberg Oct. 31, 1517, which was already one month into the year 1518, Jewish reckoning. But it took some time for the news to travel to all parts of Europe. Three hundred and sixty years from the Spring of 1518 brings us to the Spring of 1878,".....
When Babylon, of course, fell. Many of their old landmark events, commencing the prophetic periods, are much more impressive than their current ones. I should say current ONE, because the only "landmark" now is WW1. Lol. I think the old interpretation of the "Little Horn" of Daniel being the Papacy is a much better arguement than their current lame ass one about Britain overthrowing the Dutch and Spanish empires. Anyway, the Adventists already have them, so I guess its pretty hard to claim being Gods sole channel of Truth when the 7th Day adventists possessed half of your "truth" before You did. lol brother.
Hi Loris. Yes, we old timers. hopefully, do serve SOME usefull purpose here.
interesting thought.
if we say that jw's, mormons, etc.
are 'cults' because they are not affilated with any 'mainstream' religious organisation, and that their founder is a man who becomes a sort of figurehead, could not the same be said of the organisation founded by christ?
I read a book a few years ago that postulated Christ was the humpback bastard son of a Roman Centurion that shagged Mary. Ostensibly a Serious study. I think the debunkers get a bit carried away with things.
most recently i have been examining such invisibly occurring events as the 1918 resurrection of the saints and this week ive looked into the watchtower claim that babylon the great fell in 1919. there was scant evidence and little biblical support for the wt claim about the resurrection occuring .
in fact, the key line of proof of the resurrection was that rutherford was released from jail in 1919. does the claim of babylons fall in 1919 fare better?
what is the proof offered by the wt that this, in fact, occurred?
"why do you only mainly refer to old publications which even the active members claim to be "out of date" in some aspects?"
Because being an old timer, im most familiar with the older publications. I never read a WT publication printed after 1980 till just the other month. As for claiming to be "out of date" I dont buy such theories. Ever shifting "Present truth" interpretations and Spiritualized fullfillments of literal expectations are bogus excuses in my book .
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was cham black?
i can't remember/find it, but i thought there was something like that in the bible.... i'm doing an essay [on history of racism], and i could _really_ use some help.. thanx!
...."The principal belief of Anglo/British Israelism is that the British (and by extension Americans, Canadians, Australians, and others) are the spiritual and literal descendants of the ancient Israelites.
Anglo-Israelism has a long history. The Puritan colonists in America also viewed themselves as spiritual descendants of the ancient Israelites. However, it was not until 1840 that John Wilson published "Lectures on our Israelitish Origin" and first proclaimed that the British people were the actual genetic descendants of God's chosen people.
The Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) records how a schism occurred among the ancient Hebrews, separating the land into:
 |
The Southern Kingdom of Judah which included the tribes of Benjamin and Levi, and |
|
The Northern Kingdom of Israel which included the remaining ten tribes. |
About 721 BCE, the latter was captured by the Assyrians. According to historians and archeologists, its population was taken into captivity, and assimilated. Non-Hebrews were imported in the region and the Northern Kingdom ceased to exist. However, British Israel writers developed the belief that these "10 tribes" retained their identity, became lost to history, and wandered far from the Middle East. "......
Viv. Here is where modern "rascism" started, with British Israelism, in the mid 1800s. Identity churches including the clan and posse comitatus are directly descended from here.Herbert Armstrongs World wide church of God had links to British Israelism and British Israelism can be unearthed in numerous charismatic churches such as the "Revival Centres International"
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was cham black?
i can't remember/find it, but i thought there was something like that in the bible.... i'm doing an essay [on history of racism], and i could _really_ use some help.. thanx!
"This website is dedicated to the education of the Children of YHVH (pronounced "Yahweh"); the Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Teutonic, Scandinavian, Lombardic, Celtic peoples of the earth. The Sons and Daughters of the Most High EL who are of the House of Jacob-Israel and of the House of Judah. We plead the blood of Yahshua Messiah upon all the Soldier-Saints of the Identity movement that they may be protected in all their comings and goings, and that the spirit of obediance will be rekindled in their hearts so that they may develop and maintain an unfettered spiritual connection with the Father whose name is YHVH."
Yeah. I think he means Jehovah. Lol
most recently i have been examining such invisibly occurring events as the 1918 resurrection of the saints and this week ive looked into the watchtower claim that babylon the great fell in 1919. there was scant evidence and little biblical support for the wt claim about the resurrection occuring .
in fact, the key line of proof of the resurrection was that rutherford was released from jail in 1919. does the claim of babylons fall in 1919 fare better?
what is the proof offered by the wt that this, in fact, occurred?
BABYLON THE GREAT HAS FALLEN (1963) : “ Historically, this modern Babylon the Great had a fall in the year 1919. The Babylonish world empire of religion still exists, but that fact does not disprove its fall in that year. We must remember that, after ancient Babylon’s surprise fall to the Medes and Persians in 539 B.C., the city kept standing for centuries till finally it disappeared, to fulfill Bible prophecy. Likewise, modern Babylon the Great suffers a significant fall”
FALLEN AND JUDGED. WT. 1 May 1989: “However, although Babylon’s power over the Jews was broken, it did not mean the end of ancient Babylon… Indeed on the surface the private lives of Babylonian citizens appear to have changed very little under Persian rule. Religious forms were preserved and commercial activity prospered. Thus, in spite of her fall, Babylon continued to function, but with one big difference—God’s people, Israel, were no longer held captive. They returned to Jerusalem to restore true worship there”
Already we can see the claim that the falling of Babylon was connected to the “release of Israel from captivity”. As well, though it has “Fallen” it continues to exist to such a degree that it APPEARS to continue on with business as usual. Thus any “fall” is only discernable to those with eyes of understanding. Natural men cannot see its occurring. Indeed, the same ones who had eyes to perceive the invisible enthronement of Christ in the heavens in 1914 are the ones who also see the other significant invisible events of the early 20 th century.
BABYLON THE GREAT HAS FALLEN (1963): “ A.D. 1914 Babylon the Great, or the world empire of Babylonish religion, approached her most critical period in world history. In 1914 the seven times of the Gentiles ended, and the question was, Would Babylon the Great continue to make the nations drink this potion that made the nations drunk with trouble and desperation, or would she use her religious power and influence to prevent the violent, oppressive course of the nations?….., would she bring the nations into peaceful harmony with God’s kingdom, which was due to be born in the heavens in 1914 at the end of the Gentile Times? (Revelation 12:1-12) Would Christendom recognize as King the “Lamb of God,” when he stood up on heavenly Mount Zion?….To these questions history gives as its answer World War I. In the very heart of Christendom it broke out in the summer of 1914. It continued into the fall of 1918”
From this quote one could draw the conclusion that Jehovah was still, in 1914, indecisive as to whether the Catholic church was fit to represent His interests on Earth ! It appears it was only WW1 and Christendoms refusal to recognize the “reality” of the Invisible reign of Christ that decided Gods mind. Meanwhile, the same old history of the WT organization again resurfaces and is quoted as “proof” of the interpretation that the Org was captive to Babylon
“On July 17, 1917, this Society published and put into their hands the book entitled “The Finished Mystery,”.. On Sunday, December 30, 1917, there was a general distribution of the large, four-page tract, Bible Students Monthly No. 99, with the feature article “The Fall of Babylon,” with quotations from The Finished Mystery. Within two months from then that book and the Bible Students Monthly were banned in Canada. Shortly afterward the banning of these in the United States followed. Then came the arrest and trial of the president of the Watch Tower Society and seven others of the office personnel of the Society. On June 21, 1918, they were sentenced each to eighty years’ imprisonment in a Federal penitentiary….Christian Bible Students, who had been proclaiming Jehovah’s judgments against Babylon the Great, found themselves in a captive condition under her power, and with their worldwide organization broken up… Like ancient Babylon, which never opened the prison doors to let Jehovah’s witnesses out, modern Babylon the Great thought to keep the modern Christian witnesses of Jehovah suppressed and in captivity forever. But in March of 1919 the prison doors were forced open to Jehovah’s witnesses, and out they came and stayed out”
Nothing more is claimed as support for the belief in Babylons fall than the release of the ” Watchtower 7” from jail! The very fact they are released from the can is proof that “Babylon” fell and that the Saints were “resurrected”. As this final quote shows, Babylon was condemned to fall because of her conduct POST 1914.
BABYLON THE GREAT HAS FALLEN (1963) : “Jehovah’s witnesses were again free, boldly proclaiming God’s kingdom publicly! What had happened? It must have been that Babylon the Great had fallen! This, although she had not yet been destroyed. The Lamb of God on the heavenly Mount Zion had played his role as the Liberator greater than Cyrus but as foreshadowed by Cyrus…. Condemned by her misconduct since the end of the Gentile Times in 1914, she stood condemned before the heavenly tribunal of Jehovah God. His judgment was rendered against her, and she fell in the spring of the year 1919.”
The matter of the Fall of Babylon is discussed over 5 pages in the 1963 “Babylon Book”, Interesting to note thru those 5 pages is the sparcity of scriptural quotation as backing for the claimed fulfillment. Though no specific date for Babylons fall is offered, doubtless the WT Conceives that it coincided, largely, with the release of the WT7 from the hoosgow.
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was cham black?
i can't remember/find it, but i thought there was something like that in the bible.... i'm doing an essay [on history of racism], and i could _really_ use some help.. thanx!
http://www.posse-comitatus.org/
Check this one out. If you want to turn your stomach reading hate, you might as well read the most infamous, this organization is notorious.
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was cham black?
i can't remember/find it, but i thought there was something like that in the bible.... i'm doing an essay [on history of racism], and i could _really_ use some help.. thanx!
http://www.soundwaves2000.com/broadcasts/
there ya go. more racists than you can point a sharp stick at. happy listening....
